The pistol grip, Monte Carlo stock debate
If you can't wrap your thumb around it, it isn't really a pistol grip

Glenn Reynolds linked to my photo of John Kerry holding a shotgun as part of his post on what features disqualify a long gun as legal. He says that the shotgun Kerry is holding, a Remington 1100 or 1187 (TV coverage had a better view of the gun) does not appear to have a pistol grip. But Glenn says the two guns pictured on this Drudge page, says Glenn, do seem to have such a grip, and the second photo of the gun has a stock that "looks like a 'Monte Carlo' stock."

A lively debate follows on what the law qualifies as a pistol grip. As an avid shooter with decades training and experience on various weapons, I'll dive in, too.

Let's start with Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: pistol grip
1 : a grip of a shotgun or rifle shaped like a pistol stock
2 : a handle shaped like a pistol stock

This is a pistol stock, the example being the classic M1911A1 by Colt Arms:



A pistol is held by wrapping the thumb and fingers around the pistol stock, or grip, in a horizontal plane. That is what makes it a "grip," rather than merely a handrest.

Now examine this photo of the shotgun I use, the Beretta AL391 Urika Parallel Target:



The handhold near the trigger is similar to that of the Remington Kerry is holding (see the photo on the side of the linked page for a clear view). These are the universal style of sporting and hunting shotgun stocks, and they are not pistol grips.

Benelli arms last year won a contract to supply shotguns to the US military. Its web page illustrating the military models is instructive. Observe the models here, especially their names - there is a "M4 Standard Stock" and a "Pistol Grip M4."



As for Monte Carlo stocks, Glenn is incorrect. The Remington 1100/1187 do not feature Monte Carlo stocks. Look at the the Beretta pic. See that little notch at the top rear of the stock? That's a Monte Carlo stock (although this model Beretta is really semi-Monte Carlo, not full). All a Monte Carlo stock does in enable a higher cheek rest on the comb, which is the top edge of the stock, and still enable the butt plate to rest fully against the shoulder.

A full-up Monte Carlo stock is here, used on a Browning rifle. And a Browning rifle with a thumbhole stock is here. This stock almost certainly qualifies as a pistol grip under the expiring assault-weapons ban law, but the rifle lacks the other features banned, such as a bayonet stud and detachable magazine, that would have banned it.

Just where standard-style stocks end and pistol grips begin is not always clear. Some specialized target rifles such as Anschutz's clearly have pistol-style grips, such as the one I used in competition shooting in college. But a lot of makers call a stock a pistol grip when it really isn't to distinguish it from an older style of stock called the Upland style, which is still popular on shotguns used by gamebird hunters. Note the Upland stock flows pretty much straight back from the breech and trigger area on these Stoeger guns:



So, IMO, the Remingon gun Kerry brandished does not feature a "pistol grip," but I recognize that it's not "IMO" that really counts, but some litigious gun banning group and some judge somewhere. As Glenn wrote, "common sense and gun-control legislation seldom go together."

And anyone supporting the Second Amendment, as I do, is surely highly suspicious of almost any Democrat using a gun as an "elect me" prop.

Update: The National Shooting Sports Foundation says that the Remington Kerry is holding would have been banned if Kerry had had his legislative way, presumably because of the grip.

No one will ever persuade me that even a full-blown pistol grip of a shotgun (see Benelli example above) somehow makes it more dangerous. I have known a couple of trap shooters who had modified their over-under gun's stock to have the Benelli-type grip. They said it gave them better pointing control, and it probably did.

Can gun controllers explain why that is bad? They can, but only if they are honest enough (and they never are!) to admit that banning specific firearm features, one by one, is their tactic eventually to ban firearms, period.

by Donald Sensing, 9/7/2004 03:46:58 PM. Permalink |